Again…every example you give about Republicans, I could come back and say, ‘why yes, but you forget that Democrats wanted more of that‘. Democrats wanted to expand the prescription drug plan more, Democrats wanted to fund NCLB more, Democrats wanted a bigger homeland security. In addition, unlike Republicans, Democrats also wanted to raise taxes, they also want (present tense) to expand these very expensive social programs more.

Maybe your problem is in thinking that the GOP ever was a small government party. I don’t think it ever was (well, maybe with Reagan, but even there it gets ify). It was always considered the small government party with respect to the Democrats, and I think that continues to be the case.

LaurenceB,

How about complaining about military spending while defending social programs like Medicare and social security?

Jon’s argument is tantamount to a liberal who is fed up with the Democrats continued support of the war, and, because of such, votes for McCain. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

Jon is right. Complaining about earmarks while defending military spending is straining at gnats.

Republicans have been very much in control in a sense going all the way back to 1994. We elect them to get government out of our lives. What have they done? Government has expanded like never before. You are content to say “Well, they’re better than the alternative.” But if you continue to support them, what will it mean? Huge, huge government. Arguably it won’t grow at quite the rate the Democrats would grow it. But does it really matter in the end? We absolutely need to shrink the federal government. The Republicans won’t do it. We sent them to do it, they couldn’t. Focus your energies on finding people that will, not supporting someone that really stays on the same path as the Democrats.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs

So why stump for McCain from a fiscal perspective? The ship is sinking. You may have a point on longer term obligations. Arguably it is more expensive. But it amounts to the Titanic going down, and maybe Republicans have a teaspoon and they’re trying to get water out and Democrats are doing nothing. Like I said, I’m not defending Democrats. I’m just saying that really what’s the difference?

One serial killer kills 100 people and the other kills 102. You like to criticize the 102 killer and throw your support behind the 100 killer. Does it really matter?

All right, enough with my analogies.

For example, say a Republican cuts taxes and temporarily increases the federal deficit…yet a Democrat raises taxes or - worse - creates a social program that with each passing generation adds more to the federal deficit, just not at the current moment…which is worst? Clearly the Democrats. It is precisely that reality that I am addressing.

You name me the two largest long term deficit problems…and I will show you two programs created by Democrats - and worse, current Democrat politicians are campaigning on increasing those programs, while the Republican on reducing it.

Be disgusted by both parties Jon…thats acceptable and to a large degree, I agree. My only disagreement with you is in trying to paint the Republican party as equal…or more ridiculous…as worse than the Democratic party. I just can’t swallow that ‘camel’.

I’m not really saying Democrats are better. I’m saying it’s not clear that they are worse. Look at this chart and explain how it is clear to you that one party is clearly better than the other:

http://www.iatse728.org/home/deficitgraph.htm

You can focus on one program over another, but the overall picture is important, and that is what the link I’ve provided shows. You shill for Republicans constantly over Democrats and I see this swooming over a 700 lb gross woman over a 750 lb gross woman. “Oh look” you say “she’s 50 lbs lighter. So wonderful. Get excited about her.” I can’t do it anymore. I’m not going to pretend I’m not disgusted by both of them.

You keep ignoring my point: As bad as Republicans are, they are still better than Democrats. You berate McCain on Iraq, but ignore the healthcare proposals the Democrats are making? Take a look at the graph again…which of the two do you think would have a more long term affect on deficits? Iraq war or new healthcare social programs?

You criticize Bush on “the size of the Department of Education”, on “the coming Medicare crisis” and “Homeland Security”…all fair points, yet you fail to take into account that Democrats were even worse on all of the above! Democrats criticize Bush for not spending enough on education, for not increasing medicare even more, and for not funding homeland security enough. Oh and, in addition to the above, they want to increase taxes, create more social programs, and do nothing about social security…yet its Republicans that are the enemies of small government?

Seriously Jon, your arguments would be more persuasive if we didn’t have the clearly big government Democratic party as the alternative. In comparison, the GOP continues to be, with all its flaws, the small government choice.

The graph looks pretty bad. But it was small government types that worked very hard to elect Bush and get him a Republican House and Senate. We did it. Remember that the Republican platform used to stand for getting rid of the Department of Education entirely. What did Bush and the Republicans do? They doubled the size of the Department of Education. What did Bush do about the coming Medicare crisis? He tacked on a prescription drug plan. But where’s the money going to come from? He won’t raise taxes. He won’t scale back benefits. Maybe a Democratic President created Medicare, but should we elect John McCain and hope he’d slow it down? If history is any guide he won’t do a single thing. Look for him to keep on with huge government. Bush has added Homeland Security, a huge, bloated bureaucracy that monitors your phone calls, tracks your browsing history, etc. What happened to Republicans standing for small government and individual liberties? It’s a lot of talk. Goldwater may have cared but those days are over. I for one will not carry water for them any more and try and pretend that they give a hoot about small government and individual freedom.

Granted, the Republican party, in a vacuum, is not a limited government party. But we don’t live in a vacuum…we live in a world with trade-offs and substitutions…and given that, Republicans, when you compare them to Democrats, continue to be, IMHO, the small government party. Look at the graph above…again.