-cindylu

Calling into question the fact that there are colleges that are the complete antithesis of ethnic “diversity” is “bad” because “those institutions came out of an era of segregation in which black students were not allowed to attend other higher education institutions?” That is a poor reason (actually not a reason at all) to dismiss the counter claim to the diversity argument that a college education is not necessarily more enriching simply because the college has a more “diverse” (“racially” speaking) student body. Are there still institutions of higher learning that negatively discriminate against Blacks simply because of “race?” Times have changed, and changed greatly; gone are the days of de jure racial segregation and so too, one would logically think, the “need” of racially segregated colleges.

The only reason that I can think of that the supporters of affirmative action aren’t calling for the dismantling of Black colleges, or rather why they are not calling for “Black colleges” to increase their commitment to “diversity” is that they would politically alienate a significant portion of their constituency (Blacks) and also, they realize that the call for “diversity” is in reality an “end-round” play to get extra benefits for certain “minorities” as means to dispense reparations for supposed past social injustices.

If those who support AA on the grounds that a “diverse” campus truly think that diversity is a necessary component to a proper and meaningful college education than why do they not fight or argue for Black colleges to adjust their recruitment procedures to reflect one that would meet the goal of providing a “diverse” student body? Maybe it is because they think a policy of diversity, in regards to the racial make-up of the student body, is only necessary for proper and meaningful education in universities with a large “white” student body; but why? Why do certain colleges need to have a diverse student body and why don’t other colleges have that same need? Why do proponents of diversity remain idle (refrain from calling for diversity) while there are Black students at Black Colleges, at this very moment, being educated in substandard non-diverse educational atmosphere? If one truly believes in the virtues of “diversity” one would think that he or she would be protesting 24/7 until those inept administrators at those “all” Black colleges shed their archaic and antiquated notions of a proper educational environment to reflect a educational scene that is more modern; that is, alter it to racially diverse model.

It is clear that the success of Black colleges in graduating many qualified Black scholars is a strong argument against the “need” for a racially diverse college campus; that the proponents of affirmative don’t like it does not weaken the potency of this argument.

HP I wonder, why do you think that proponents of AA will argue so passionately for the merits and benefits of “diversity” in one educational setting, but the silence in another is deafening?

Let’s get the important stuff out of the way first; who the hell are you going on a date with @ 11:30pm at night?!?!?!

Now, onto a lighter point, you write,

there is research on this. I find it quite rigorous and not at all “weak.” The researchers you cite use similar methods. Fryer uses regression in some of his studies, the same thing I use.

Just because two studies use regression in no way implies that they have the same strength in their foundation. Regression is not all there is to the equation, you than have to separate causes, effects, mere correlations, how strongly they correlated and all sorts of things that can greatly change the ‘basis’ from one study to the next, making one ‘weak’, and making another ’strong’. Just take Freakonomics, the recent book by a widely respected economist, many people currently question his studies findings, yet he used regression in every study.

Ok, now onto our discussion, for the record, I do believe that diversity is good (given a safe, professional environment). As someone who works in the engineering field, a field known for its high level of diversity, I strongly believe that the engineering field benefits greatly because of diversity.

So I am not trying to argue against the benefits of diversity in a university, my point is that the justification for affirmative action based on diversity is suspect.

As I showed above, universities seem to be selective in their support of ‘diversity’. Is diversity good on college campuses? Yes. Is it critical to educational learning? Clearly the answer is no when referring to HBCU’s. Clearly the answer is no when referring to graduations. Clearly the answer is no if you refer to certain depts (how many Blacks does a Chicano Studies class have to have?). In other words, clearly the answer is no unless it deals with affirmative action.

As I said in our previous discussion on affirmative action, if I had to name the arguments in support of affirmative action that sway me in favor of it, the diversity argument is the only one. But I still don’t think it is strong enough to justify affirmative action, especially when you take into account the strong evidence that affirmative actions hurts those it is trying to help…

Now, back to my main point, who was this ‘hot date’, again?!?!

And you know it is not the universities who chose to hold ethnic-specific graduation ceremonies. Student groups do this on their own and often with money they raised or by using their self-assessed students fees for university programming.

Neither the graduations nor the HBCU’s discriminate against students on race or ethnicity.

I know there is research out there that supposedly (I’ve seen it called ‘weak’ research) proves diversity is good for a campus, that it’s a good learning experience etc (diversity is a suspect argument to make in favor of affirmative action, IMO, especially when one considers all the things universities do now that discourage ‘diversity’, like having seperate graduations based on race/ethnicity, and that there are ‘traditionally black’ Universities and nobody finds a problem with them).

My point here is that no liberal, atleast none that I have seen, has done research on whether or not affirmative action hurts the minorities that ‘benefited’ from affirmative action.

To put it more bluntly, I can see how having some Blacks and some Mexicans sitting next to ‘whitey’ can benefit ‘whitey’, liberals have alot of research showing that, but how does affirmative action affect the ‘Blacks’ and the ‘Mexicans’? How does accepting minorities at a university where on meritorious standards they are below their peers, affect them? Why do they drop out at higher rates? What would happen to them if affirmative action was removed? Would it be better or worse for minorities? Not to sound racist or anything, but they, minorities, are the ones I am primarily concerned with, I care a lot less about how this will affect ‘whitey’ than how it will affect Mexicans and Blacks.

Oh and, if you look closely, you will see a common theme behind all of ‘my favorite economists’. Thomas Sowell deals primarily with elites and how their outdated and unrealistic utopian views harm minorities. Milton Friedman is the pioneer behind vouchers, the one educational tool that actually shows promise of doing something for minorities, and in the most important area, education. Gary Becker was the first person to see how discrimination works in a capitalist country, and what can be done about it. In fact, that is why he won the Nobel Prize, for taking economics to areas that no one has taken before. Roland Fryer, the up and coming economist, is removing all forms of ‘politically correct’ atmosphere, and willing to discuss any ideas on how to get minorities out of the slums and into the middle class and upper class.

So it’s not because they are conservative that I hold them in high regard, it is that it is primarily conservatives who are working on the ideas that primarily affect minorities, the realistic and workable solutions that have the greatest promise of helping those who I am devoted to…

HP,
I won’t be changing the picture anytime soon, but I would suggest that you change yours.

Now, you say that conservatives are the only ones who test anything about affirmative action. Not true. I can rattle off lists of names of researchers who have tested how racial/ethnic diversity at selective and non-selective institutions improves learning outcomes for students and those who have also researched campus climate for underrepresented minorities at places like Boalt Hall (UC Berkeley Law school) and the U of Michigan. The reason Justice O’Connor sided with the U of Michigan in the Gratz and i>Grutter cases was because there is still a compelling interest in protecting diversity.

Also, neither you nor your favorite (well, I know he’s one of many) economist, Becker, really talked about how colleges and universities should go about finding these “diamonds in the rough.”

Cool stuff, can I assume that you now have time to start your own blog? You know we could use more latino conservative voices. Let me know if you decide to and need any help, I’d be glad to help with what I can.

O,

I fixed the italicized error above.

Sorry I haven’t been around but I finally finished up the summer and “thought” i would take a semester off and relax. Now I am one of the “asst” coaches for my kids soccer team. Free time . . . que dice?

Oso, I wouldn’t say your pic was sexy, pero that pic looks WAY better than the kervorkian one HP had up the other day.

I would quote from liberal sources, only problem is, what Thomas Sowell alluded to before, it is primarily conservatives who actually test the results of these utopian views. Liberals tend to just assume these programs work, the actual testing and hardwork verification is done primarily by conservatives (You know what they say when you assume).

But aside from that, I’d agree with your general outline, especially the me being a brilliant genius part and the occassional flirting. Btw, you look very sexy in your picture…LOL.